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New system build, discussion about options [message #108370]

Sat, 30 August 2014 20:56

JohnG

Messages: 57
Registered: April 2013
Location: Twin Cities, MN

Member

Hello Mike and fellow paris users. Thanks Mike for all your previous help and the work you continue to do for paris.
I am building a new machine and plan to give reaper a try, and so I am trying to make some decisions on what role my paris system will play and what is possible. Comments and suggestions on any one or all of the following are welcome based on your areas of expertise/interest:

My current system:
Windows XP, AMD athlon,2 gigs ram(tried to add 4 but no go) 2 eds, 2 mec, 2 8 in, 2 control 16.

My new build, on which I plan to run reaper:
Windows 8.1 (sorry Mike)
AMD 8 core fx 8350, at least 16 gb ram, maybe 32 gb.
7200 rpm hdd os drive, ssd data drive (don't have the exact specs in front of me).
Possibly MOTU 828x and 8 pre interfaces over USB.

the MOBO has following expansion slots:
PCI Express 2.0 x16
2 (x16, x4)

PCI Express x1
2

PCI Slots
2

I was considering selling off the paris gear eventually as I would like a simple streamlined set up, but with the new ASIO drivers possibly coming I am re-thinking a bit.

1)Will the ASIO drivers Mike is working on allow me to record 12-16 tracks at a time (from the 2 8 ins on the mecs) to reaper in Win 8.1?

2) To do the above using the paris converters would I need my entire current paris set up (cpu with eds cards in addition to the 8 in's) (basically keeping my entire old system to use as an interface for the reaper machine)? If this is possible could both 8 ins be in the same mec to save space(I have 1 8-in in each mec right now).

3) How does one go about transferring a project from Paris to reaper for mixing? I have a few song projects in progress and would like to use them to get to know mixing in reaper?

4) Can anyone give an estimate how may tracks of playback I can mix in realtime in reaper with the new system I am building (assume 24 bit, 48k SR, 4 bands or so eq on each channel, compression on most channels, some time based effects, etc). (Is it a common and legitimate alternative to route groups of channels to one effect to conserve effects processing power, for example, group several background vocals to one reverb to process together to save resources?).

Thanks for any comments and I look forward to your responses!
John

John, Twin Cities, MN

[Updated on: Sun, 31 August 2014 07:25]

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Re: New system build, discussion about options [message #108371 is a reply to message #108370]

Sun, 31 August 2014 04:31

dnafe

Messages: 390
Registered: February 2009

Senior Member

I too just finished a build of a smoking new machine which will house Reaper and all my VST Plugs and I decided to interface it with my old Paris rig for its AD/DA rather than sell off Paris and buy new converters

Basically I'll be flying audio via light pipe from my new machine via a Frontier Designs Dakota into the ADAT inputs on my Paris rig and will be using Paris now as my Dangerous 2 Buss (sort of) but with the added bonus of having all the bells and whistles of Paris at my disposal
and so far everything is working as it should.

At some point I'm going to try running Reaper directly off my Paris rig once Mike's got the ASIO drivers finalized.

As I haven't loaded a full project into my new rig yet I can only speculate on track count in Reaper but I expect to get at least double the count I have now which would allow for around 70 tracks at mix down and as I'm going to be using UAD plugs instead of Waves I expect that number to be even higher...closer to 100 plus.

You can load PAF files directly into Reaper but not the PPJ project files so if you have any critical editing or snippets of audio throughout your project you might wan to render (bounce) your audio down to single tracks.

Hope that helps

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Re: New system build, discussion about options [message #108372 is a reply to message #108371]

Sun, 31 August 2014 08:04

JohnG

Messages: 57
Registered: April 2013
Location: Twin Cities, MN

Member

Thanks for the feedback dnafe. I hope your new system works well for you. Sounds cool.
Sounds like I should have plenty of tracks of playback for my purposes and plan to use mainly stock effects, and maybe just a few vst's or plugins at this point and will try to avoid CPU hogs.Maybe I'll add waves or uad at some point.

Forgive my ignorance, I'm not a computer expert, and I haven't used lots of DAW's, mainly just paris on pc, so don't have experience with a lot of different configurations: One of my main objectives is figure out how to use paris hardware as an interface for reaper and what is possible with that (instead of buying new interfaces)
and moving partially finished projects to reaper to finish tracking and mix (if this is too much hassle, I will just finish the projects with the current rig, then retire/sell it, if it comes to that)

1) So with the new drivers mike is working on, would I still want/need to render tracks with a lot of edits, snippets before importing into reaper,if I moved existing tracks from paris to reaper. When you load PAF's into reaper currently, do the tracks remain synced properly with each other, and does reaper need any special drivers or anything to handle this?

2) Given that I don't have ADAT, what are the possibilities:
With the new ASIO drivers, is there any other way I could use paris hardware/converters to record into reaper, other than having a separate machine with ADAT cards added (don't have these and don't really want to go down that road).
Would it be adviseable to try putting the eds cards in my new machine (it does have 2 pci slots)? How about using a virtua via expansion chassis? What would this allow me to do in terms of tracking using paris converters to reaper?

Thanks again for any insights and feedback that you may have and sorry if some of these questions are ignorant.
John

John, Twin Cities, MN

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Re: New system build, discussion about options [message #108373 is a reply to message #108372]

Mon, 01 September 2014 03:17

dnafe

Messages: 390
Registered: February 2009

Senior Member

#1 re: rendering - I don't think Reaper can read a PAF's position along the timeline so you'll need to render each track...although I could be wrong on this (it's been a while)

#2 re: recording - that is a question best answered by Mike as my experience running Reaper off of Paris hardware was limited to playback only and was at least 5 years ago using Mike's first ASIO driver build...it worked but certainly wasn't ready for prime time.

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Re: New system build, discussion about options [message #108374 is a reply to message #108373]

Mon, 01 September 2014 14:47

mikeaudet

Messages: 474
Registered: February 2009

Senior Member

Hi John,

Thanks for the kind words!

From what I've read, Windows 8 has major under the hood improvements that can affect ASIO latency. I'm not sure how much of an impact it can have, but Windows 8.1 is no means a bad choice. Microsoft was trying to deprecate the traditional Windows desktop so they could get a 30% cut of every piece of software sold on the windows platform, as well as controlling what could be sold at all. Balmer lost his job over the blow-back, and I'm considering upgrading to Windows 9 if it looks good when it comes out.

As for the new driver, it's almost done. I just have GUI work to do, which I will have a bunch more time to work on once my daughter starts kindergarten in a week.

Each EDS1000 card can handle 24 streams of audio to OR from the card. The new ASIO driver allows any combination of inputs and outputs up to 24 channels per card. You could have a one card system with two 8 in cards and one 8 out card and record 16 24 bit inputs and still have 8 24 bit outputs all at once. There is no requirement to use the built in MEC inputs or outputs. It's 100% configurable.

As for how many tacks you can mix in Reaper, my guess is it will be basically unlimited. PCs have progressed so far that audio is child's play to them.

I'm having really good luck with a new Intel z97 based board. I used to get 35 frames per second on my 6 core AMD Phenom II, and I'm getting 380 frames per second on my quad core Haswell refresh based system. If you already have the AMD board, I'm sure it will work just fine.

All the best!

Mike

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Re: New system build, discussion about options [message #108377 is a reply to message #108374]

Mon, 01 September 2014 15:13

JohnG

Messages: 57
Registered: April 2013
Location: Twin Cities, MN

Member

Hey Mike,
I think I read you had another addition to your family.
If so congrats!

OK so I'm trying to look at what is possible as far as a configuration for using the paris hardware as an interface for reaper on the new machine:
To clarify, If I wanted to use the one eds and 2 8 ins as you mention, would you suggest putting the eds card in my new machine (concerns with compatibility etc), or leave it in the old case and use ADAT to connect to the new machine.(I don't have an ADAT out card).
Also is the 8 out card needed for any of this, cause I don't have an 8 out either? (I tend to stick with in the box mixing once I've tracked, can't afford a hardware effects addiction Rolling Eyes

)

Thanks for taking the time to respond despite your busy life!
John

John, Twin Cities, MN

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Re: New system build, discussion about options [message #108379 is a reply to message #108377]

Mon, 01 September 2014 16:46

mikeaudet

Messages: 474
Registered: February 2009

Senior Member

Hi John,

I've only every seen a compatibility problem with an EDS1000 card once in all these years. I'd put the EDS1000 card in the new PC. That way, you can use both Reaper and the PARIS app as you see fit.

There's no need for an 8 out card. It's just an example. You could have 22 inputs and 2 outputs if that's what you'd prefer. The only caveat is that only two input expansion cards and two output expansion cards can be active at once. So, you could have 16 inputs from two 8 in cards, and the rest of the inputs would have to be SPDIF/Main inputs/Aux inputs.

All the best,

Mike

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Re: New system build, discussion about options [message #108380 is a reply to message #108379]

Mon, 01 September 2014 19:59

JohnG

Messages: 57
Registered: April 2013
Location: Twin Cities, MN

Member

Ok,Mike,that sounds good. 16 inputs at the 2 8-ins should be enough for me. A few more quick questions:

1) If I wanted more inputs, could I use the paris hardware and a MOTU USB interface at the same time?

2)Would you foresee any problem with 2 cards in the new machine?

3) In the case of 2 cards in the machine requiring the 2 mecs, for the purposes of using the paris hardware to track to reaper, does it matter if the 2 8-ins are in the same MEC vs. 1 8-in in each MEC?

4) Have you gotten around to finishing that one knob reverb panner (you mentioned this in post a while back).

Thanks again for your help, and I may be back after building this machine to see if the new ASIO driver is ready for purchase!

Take care,
John

John, Twin Cities, MN

[Updated on: Mon, 01 September 2014 20:03]

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Re: New system build, discussion about options [message #108383 is a reply to message #108380]

Tue, 02 September 2014 18:02

mikeaudet

Messages: 474
Registered: February 2009

Senior Member

I've never seen an ASIO host that will open more than one ASIO driver at once. So, no, you can't use the usb audio interface to add inputs, unfortunately.

I would foresee no problems with two cards. Just make sure they are cooled by a fan on the side of the case.

It makes no difference which MEC the 8 in cards are in until you have three of them.

I have not finished the reverb panner, but I need it! It's been on my mind.

All the best!

Mike

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